8.times do

Whereas in Java you would need to write:

for (int i=0; i < 8; i ) { code goes here }

Another example is how in Python, everything is an object, even an integer. Whereas in Java, and most lower level language, integers are primitive data types. Primitive data types take up less memory than objects.

But the real advantage of writing code at a lower level is that you have more control over how it is executed, and as a result is much faster. A language is only “too verbose” as you put it, if you don’t need that level of control. Try writing an operating system in Python. You would be begging for more verbosity.

Now you may be saying “I’m only writing web apps, why do I need that level of control?”. Take a look at Facebook. Their front end is PHP, but they have a lot of low level code (C, C , Java) mixed in for optimization. If their application was written in Ruby or Python, it simply wouldn’t be able to handle to load. Which brings me to my next point.

Python and Ruby are interpreted languages, whereas Java is compiled, which also makes it much faster. For example, in comparison to C , Java is able to execute at a speed ratio of about 1.5:1, whereas Python is able to execute at a speed ratio of 100:1 in comparison to C .

Another advantage is that Java has many more pre written libraries than the newer languages such as Python and Ruby. So you will not find yourself in as many situations where you are solving problems that have already been solved (read: writing code that has already been written).

Another advantage is support. Java developers far outnumber Ruby and Python developers, and so you will find many more online resources for Java. As well, Java is far more documented that Ruby and Python.

Comparing a language to a framework is not a valid comparison. As a software engineer, you should know that.

Actually, in the context it was used, my comparison is completely valid. I said “support” and “resources”. Had I been comparing it in terms of execution speed, then yes, a better comparison would be Java to Python, or Struts to Django.

Remember: Web developers don’t play with HTML and CSS all day.

I agree. However, the only web developers I’ve ever heard of who complain that “Java is evil” have not had a education in the fundamentals of computer science, and therefore do not understand the benefits of interpreted vs. compiled, low-level vs. high-level, or primitives vs. objects.

But the benefits are numerous.

What are the benefits to writing a Java web app?

I guess the point of my post if that Java is a great language, and has virtually limitless support and resources. MUCH more than the new frameworks such as Django and Rails.

Comparing a language to a framework is not a valid comparison. As a software engineer, you should know that.

BTW, my first name is Jon-Michael, not Jon ;). I do have a healthy knowledge of “programming languages and the like” too. Remember: Web developers don’t play with HTML and CSS all day.

If you want to stick with web development only, then by all means start with Python (although I would recommend Ruby, I find it to be syntactically superior to Python). However if you ever plan on using something lower level such as C (or in your case Objective-C, which is a derivative of C) then learning Java would be very helpful. There are significant differences in the syntax of Python compared the syntax of the more established languages (C, C , Objective-C, Java, C#, etc). There is a reason that Java is the first language taught in most Computer Science programs.

As well, it appears that Jon believes that Java is for desktop applications only. This is not true. I would venture to say that the majority of Java development is for web applications. J2EE is pretty much the industry standard for enterprise web applications. However, writing a Java web application does take some serious programming skills, and is not really meant for the novice programmer. But the benefits are numerous.

I guess the point of my post if that Java is a great language, and has virtually limitless support and resources. MUCH more than the new frameworks such as Django and Rails.

And just FYI, I am a working software engineer, so I think I have a little more knowledge than Jon when it comes to programming languages and the like.

Try out a couple languages, the more you know, the more versatile you can be, and the bigger chance you might get hired.

thanks michael!!